Friday, January 4, 2008

The Trouble with Buying through Amway - Part 2

In Part 1 we discussed what we consider the drawbacks of buying through Amway. Those were buying in bulk, inconvenience, non-perishable items only, product range and prices. In this blog post, we'll touch on inconvenience and non-perishable items together as they are both interconnected.

Shopping online is no doubt a very convenient method of purchasing products, millions upon millions of people do just that every single day. Amway being an online shopping site also, it's IBO's often sell Amway as being convenient and time saving. Why trudge down the supermarket aisles when you can order your products from the comfort of your home and have them home delivered right? Sure sounds good, but when you look at it closely, shopping with Amway can turn out not to be very convenient at all. Here's why we think this is so:

Firstly, if your expecting to buy ALL your groceries and household items through Amway (sold by IBO's as "redirecting your spending", you will find that this is simply impossible. Amway only sells products that are non-perishable. So unless, you don't eat any fresh meats, fresh fruit and vegetables, dairy products, baked breads and the like and also frozen foods, then you will still have to go to the supermarket or other fresh food outlets to buy these goods as you would normally do. Now, there are people who may indeed not eat any fresh foods whatsoever, but seriously, these would be in the absolute minutest percentile of the population. So for everyone else, instead of a doing a full grocery shop, your still having to do maybe a half shop and saving yourself what, 15-20 minutes? Big deal.

Secondly, when you purchase something online, most sites will dispatch your order the same or the next day. However with Amway, for regular deliveries, your order will be dispatched on the same day of each week, depending on where you live. So if your area's dispatch day is say Wednesday, then whatever you order from that day will not be dispatched until the next Wednesday, with your order arriving after 1-2 days. Who wants to wait for up to a week for their products? Oh, but you can get them delivered by Express, it costs extra of course. Regular delivery is $6.95 (plus $1 for each bulky item) and Express is $14.95. If you've placed your order by phone or fax then add $3 to the delivery charge also.

Nope, if we need a item, we can nick down to the supermarket, buy it and have it in our hands ready to use as soon as we get home and although the price of petrol is obscenely high, we doubt that we'd use anymore than 50 cents worth of petrol to do it.

Thirdly, deliveries of the products to your shipping address is made anywhere between 7am and 6pm. That's ok if your at home all day, and seriously who has ever had a delivery person knock on their door at 7am in the morning?? Anyway, so if your like the many millions of people that work, you will likely to be not home when your products arrive. Which will then result in the delivery driver leaving a card and you will then have to contact them, in the time frames they have outlined, to organise re-delivery. Unless of course you have organised for your products to be delivered to an alternate address. If it's at work and your boss is ok with you doing so then no drama, but if it is at a friend or relatives home, then you still have to take the time to go over there to pick up your products.

Now if you live more than 5kms out from the outer 60km zone in your nearest town, then you will have no choice but to nominate an alternate shipping address. So the people who live in rural areas and/or outside of larger towns and cities, who would appreciate and benefit the most from the home delivery of any products they buy, cannot get their Amway products delivered to their door!

So if you find buying all your fresh foods and perishable items as normal, buying your non-perishables through Amway (where a lot of it comes in bulk), where you can wait for a week for them to be delivered to your home, at a time when you will be home, or if your "out of town" not delivered to your home at all but some other alternate address, and paying the shipping fees on top of that then hey, you might say that it's convenient and time saving to shop through Amway.

We say, bugger that for a joke.

12 comments:

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

Just curious, but how many times have you ordered from Amway to try out the products/delivery?

ozamwayvictims.com said...

None...and we don't intend to either. Unlike IBO's who are chasing pv, we have no incentive or perceive any value in buying any of the products.

We're curious too. Just how much of Amway Australia's sales are made to retail clients(non-IBO's)? It would not surprise us at all if it's close to Quixtars, just 3.4%. Or maybe it's closer to Amway UK's figure, where just 6% of IBO's purchased products to sell on.

Either way, both figures are extremely pathetic and indicate that the public in the US & the UK also percieve no value from buying through Am/Quix either.

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

Right, so you've never ordered through Amway. How many Amway products have you tried?

ozamwayvictims.com said...

Well let's see, apart from the name brand grocery items which can be bought cheaper at the supermarket, does not have to be purchased in bulk, you get it immediately and not a week later and plus pay no shipping fees for...we've spent not one cent on Amway products.

However, we have sampled (well the Mrs has) the ladies perfume, forget the name of it but will never forget the rank scent, much like tropical strength Aerogard. Have used the hand-soap, which is no better than Palmolive handwash and the toilet paper, which is no match for Kleenex Cottonelle. Just our opinion of course.

So what's your point?

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

so, apart, possibly, from the hand soap, you've not actually tried a single Amway product, not one?

ozamwayvictims.com said...

So these are not Amway products then? Is the perfume, handsoap and toilet paper available exclusively from Amway? So to us they are Amway products. But if you want to be pedantic, then according you it's no. In any case, again...so what?

Do you think that because we have not tried a single Amway product (according to your definition of one) that we have no justification for our opinions? Please.

We'll spell this out one more time...these are some of the reasons we would not buy a single product from Amway.

1. The prices suck. Comparable and cheaper prices are found elsewhere. Furthermore, we try to support Australian owned companies where possible.

2. Bulk buying. Who tries a new product and purchases not one but 6of them?

3. The delivery and shipping methods are not convenient to us.

Now we are not saying that the products suck per se...although from the products we have tried ourselves, they didn't impress us. But we've never stated or claim that ALL they're products are crap. They probably do have some great products, but there is nothing that they offer that provides value or incentive for us to try them.

It's just like any other online store, we only buy if we think the product to be well priced for the perceived value of it, the shipping fees and delivery methods suit us amongst other factors. If they don't suit us then the online store does not get our business. That simple.

On the other hand, if a product was recommended by a someone we personally know, trust and whose opinion we value, and more importantly, who does not have any vested interest in us buying that product, then we'd be likely to try that product based on recommendation alone.

Finally, why on earth would we even consider buying anything from a company when the distributors who represent said company openly lies about where the products come from and say that we'll save "30% off retail prices" which turns out to be a lie too?

It's a sure fire way to destroy a persons credibility and reputation, and in our case thanks to brainwashing bullshit the AMO's are feeding our family member IBO's, it has also damaged our relationship with them also. Simply because they've been taught by their AMO that anyone who doesn't support the "business" ain't worth the time of day anymore.

So nope, not a dollar will we spend on a company who has allowed and continues to allow it's distributors to operate this way.

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

You ask "2. Bulk buying. Who tries a new product and purchases not one but 6of them?"

Hmm, I don't know, perhaps someone who can get all their money back, including freight, if they don't like it? Even if they use it?

And if you don't want to, your part of a team, see if one of them can lend you test products. They'll invariably say yes.

But your right. It is simple. If you don't think it's something you would want to use or promote - then don't! It's really not that hard is it?

Guess what. I thought it was something I *would* use and promote. And I did!

You finish with - "So nope, not a dollar will we spend on a company who has allowed and continues to allow it's distributors to operate this way."

Amazing. Your relatives are something you don't like, running *their* independent business. Who do you blame? Them? Nope. You blame Amway.

It's absurd.

btw toilet paper and perfumes are just periphery products. I wouldn't care if they went out of the catalogue tomorrow. Though I do have to admit - I moved to a country that doesn't have toilet paper in the catalogue - and I miss the convenience of the home delivery.

Your mileage may differ - but that's *your* opinion. Here's an opportunity to either shop or operate a business. You don't think it's for you. That's fine. But then you go and *actively* try to dissuade others from it. You are *actively* doing damage to a business your relatives have decided to try and build.

Someone certainly may have damaged family relationships, but I'd suggest you might be looking to blame the wrong people.

If you were my relatives I wouldn't want anything to do with you either.

ozamwayvictims.com said...

Apologies for the extremely long reply….but your post hit some very core issues for us.

IBOFB said: "Amazing. Your relatives are something you don't like, running *their* independent business. Who do you blame? Them? Nope. You blame Amway.

It's absurd."

Absurd?

A company which allows it’s distributors to present the opportunity in a misleading manner (by not revealing upfront that it is Amway), allows it’s distributors to make claims about income which they will not substantiate when asked, (sorry, but a “l shook hands with a millionaire” or “I have seen his cheque” is not substantial and verifiable evidence to us, not in this “business” or for any other business), a company that allows it’s distributors to claim that by working just “10-12 hours per week for 2-5 years” you will achieve “financial freedom”. Now that is what we call absurd, it is also contrary to Amway’s rules and we figure, also against the governments fair trading laws.

Amway KNOWS this is going on, it’s been going on for more than 25 years and they have done virtually nothing by their own violition to stop the abuses that are continued to be perpetuated by their AMO’s. Whilst in the beginning we were angry (but more hurt and shocked more than anything else) with our family members for the way they have behaved towards us, because we simply declined to join them, disagreed with the claims they were making and for showing great concern for them, by later showing stuff about the “business” that we felt they should be aware of.

It was only after we discovered this other stuff, being the other negative side of the Amway business and delving deeper into it’s history, that that initial anger at our loved ones dissolved and was redirected at the actual “puppet master”. That being their AMO (IDA) and Amway itself for allowing it’s AMO’s to conduct their business this way. They were “taught” to behave this way. Though we do agree that it was their decision to choose to follow the behaviours they were taught/advised to, so some personal responsibility is indeed a factor.

However the fact is, their behaviour and decisions that they made have impacted on the entire family, workmates and friends. And in our case, what was once a very close relationship is no more. It hurts and as much as it does, we will not close our hearts off to them, our door will always be open for them, they’re family and nothing in this world is more important than family. Although they would have been wise to listen to what everyone’s opinion about the “business” and research and investigate the “business” fully, so that they could have that knowledge of everything that’s good and bad about it and thus make a more informed decision. They chose not to, nothing can change that. We cannot be angry at them because they simply did not know any better. Amway is fully aware of what is going on (have been for decades), they do know better and yet have done little to nothing about it.

IBOFB said: "But then you go and *actively* try to dissuade others from it. You are *actively* doing damage to a business your relatives have decided to try and build."

You assert that we are “actively” trying to “dissuade others” and “doing damage” to the “business”. That is not our intention. We are not saying simply “DO NOT JOIN AMWAY, it's a scam” and leaving it that. What we are saying is if your looking to join Amway, then it is imperative that you have researched the “business” to the enth degree so you are aware of the good, the bad and the ugly (actual or potential) so that you can make an informed decision. Wouldn't you agree that this is a sound recommendation to make when considering this or any other business opportunity?

We are saying that because we care greatly about the importance of family, relationships and friendships. And when something disrupts that and causes detrimental harm to it, well we are not the type of people to sit idly by and do nothing. We would not wish our experience upon anyone and because of that, we felt we needed to do something and share our experience, opinions, thoughts and perceptions about the Amway “business” with whoever is interested to listen. And also to expand our own knowledge by hearing the experiences, thoughts and opinions of others which may or may not lead us to change our “own truth” on the whole thing.

In seeking truth, acquiring knowledge and to make informed decisions, it is of paramount importance for people to seek and get both (or all sides) of a story and as much information as possible. We are simply sharing ours.

What the readers think of what we have to say, well, it’s up to them to make up their own minds about. To some, there may not be a single ring of truth to it, to others it may resonate truth completely or to other varying degrees. Everyone has their own truth about everything. You don’t like much of what we have to say, and think we are “doing damage” that’s your opinion and we understand where you are coming from seeing that you are an IBO.

But we’d like to make this point, had the Amway Corporation took responsibility for the actions of it’s AMO’s , enforced it’s own rules, cleaned up the abuses of those AMO’s, addressed the criticisms (the great majority of which are valid ones) that have been foisted upon it decades ago (which still continue to this day), and ensured that it’s leaders and distributors are conducting and acting with the utmost honesty, truth, transparency, integrity and ethical manner then, we would not be here!

So wrongly blaming Amway? To you “it’s absurd”....To us, not at all.

IBOFB said "If you were my relatives I wouldn't want anything to do with you either".

Nice.

Anonymous said...

Not entering into the debate between you 2, but as someone who many years ago sampled some Amway products, I will say that they failed to impress me. The quality wasn't bad, but neither was it outstanding.

Amway is no different to any of those pyramid schemes. And not much different to, say, Avon imo, in that only a very select number of people who decide to join, actually make any profit from it. Most end up with a bunch of products they don't want and can't get rid of, and out of pocket.

IBOFightback - Fighting the Amway Myths said...

Anon,

1. Amway products, like pretty much any other product you can name, have not stayed the same as they were "many years" ago. The cosmetics in particular are several classes above what they were. Others, such as the cleaning products, have pretty much always been some of the best.

2. Pyramid schemes are illegal and involve making money by sucking people in and earning money from the money the pay to join. In Amway (and Avon for that matter) you make no money at all by getting people to join, you only make money when products are sold to consumers. They are both of course legal and well respected companies, which should be a hint that perhaps you've misunderstood something.

3. You are correct only a "select few" make any money, and that is generally because only a "select few" put in the necessary time and effort to succeed. The important thing is they're a self-selecting few!

4. If you "end up with a bunch of products you don't want and can't get rid of" then you're an idiot. Amway offers a full refund on all products within 90 days, and after that will generally give refunds less a small restocking fee. What's more, if you ended up with lots of products you didn't want and can't sell then you've actively gone out of you way to break Amway's rules in the first place.

rocket said...

IBOFB,

Yet again you try to infer that people are not educated about the opportunity or the products.

The point I believe that was trying to be made before you tried to weave your web of deceit is that it's not worth it.

Not price wise.

Not convenience wise.

Not product wise.

Yet that's not good enough....

You can infer they are damaging the business all you want, and that's just too damn bad for you. Maybe if your "business" doesn't like the message they should change it, rather than trying to be critical of the message.

Funny thing! YOU can't change the message. Therefore you have very little control over "your business"

So why are you so opposed to the views being presented? Because you have something to gain.

You are good at it, however, when you get the same objections by people all over the world, well, you can't help but get good at justifying a garbage deal.

rocket said...

PS IBOFB

Define small restocking fee.