A New IBO Shares His Story

Hi!

I just wanted to contribute to your blog/website by sharing my story so far.

First of all, I am an IBO. However, my reasons for joining weren't strictly in line with Amway's BFYTODS spoon-fed garbage.

I'm a brand new IBO whose goals are the following:

1. Learn a new perspective on doing business, and see how exactly a MLM organisation works.

2. Help a friend see why Amway is a waste of time.

Amway Australia (from what I've seen) is touting itself as being part of the "Business with a System" quadrant of Robert Kiyosaki's Cash Flow Quadrant. While this is not entirely incorrect, the Diamond speakers at the workshops I've attended are emphasizing that MLM organisations are only what make up that quadrant: they fail to recognise that the "Business with a System" methodology can be achieved through other endeavours (such as franchising). They also completely disregard the Investor quadrant as being too risky; while the stock market has been affected by the economy recently, rising interests rates in Australia have made savings accounts a lucrative investment opportunity.

The most misleading statement I've heard is "setup your business once and then live your life how you want." While an Amway business, in theory, does provide an endless passive income it is far from once-only. The biggest bonuses are only obtained when your immediate downline has a bonus level below your own level. For example, consider the following...

(Note: This part is not included as the table as in the original email, it was all skewiff)

What this means is that the only way to maintain a substantial passive income is to ensure you've got several distributors (with a substantial distribution level - BV) with only people with lower bonus levels as your downlines. Essentially this alone makes it difficult to maintain a steady income, and means that you need to keep replenishing the people in your downline (as people will eventually give up if they're not receiving a substantial income) to ensure that your distribution amount (or Group BV) stays stable.

While Amway does produce some interesting products (eg. Glister Mouth Rinse concentrate), these are not the type of products you want to purchase on a monthly basis. In fact, the only product I think is worthwhile is the XS energy drink range. They're competitively priced with Red Bull, taste fairly good, and have a decent PV value. However, I'd be only buying them for the sake of buying them for the PV (I don't drink Red Bull all that often - a 2 litre bottle of cordial is far cheaper and will last a lot longer), which is absolutely ridiculous. It makes me wonder how the frivolous spending of IBOs affects our inflation.

I think I am done ranting, so if you have any questions please just email me so we can formulate a more structured article/blog post.

Regards,
(name removed)

We have indeed emailed this IBO with further questions but to date have not heard back....ah well, perhaps he achieved his goal of getting his friend out much quicker than he thought!

Amway Testimonials - Perspectives from Friends, Family, Loved Ones, Workmates & General

Continuing on with transferring the testimonials from the site to here, below are some testimonials (pre-2007) found on various sites from either friends, loved ones, workmates etc of IBO's and comments from the general public. Links to original sources included.


http://www.suburbia.com.au/~fun/amway/commen12.htm

You only have to read the Australian June 17 edition of Business Review Weekly, which headlined on the front page, "Amway fights agent exodus". Inside it started by saying that the number of Australians who sell Amway products has dropped by more than 30 percent since 1992-93.

That's huge. Yet the company itself is still making top dollar. OK so they have now changed the bonus incentives, so you don't have to have as many points, but that's to late for thousands of Australians who have been built up with huge dreams and then let down with the reality.

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www.suburbia.com.au/~fun/amway/commen44.htm

Very interesting stuff you have on Amway. I suspected a rat behind the so called amway training and motivation. If a product cannot sell itself, then there is either a problem with the product or the organisation. We have the same problem in Perth, Western Australia. People acting as self destructing lemmings, rather than using their intellegence and costing the business structure. It does not require much intellegence to realise that the major cost is the labour component. It takes four years to train an apprentice to become a tradesman, and three to five years to obtain a university degree. Then you start learning about your profession. If you listen to the negative motivational Amway hyp, then it is impossible for Bill Gates of Microsoft to exist. At least Microsoft, employs real people in real jobs. Amway is a pretend job selling a pretend idea. Wealth is not measured by money. It is the intangables in life that counts. Good health, good friends, quality time with your family, freedom of speech, the public library education. The Amway family will never be a genuine relationship. As I told one of the Amway uplines " If you put the amount of effort and time that you place in Away, into any vocation or business of your choice, then you will be successful. I for one am not interested in earning an income the Amway way. The people I have met in Amway are only users and negative motivators.

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www.amway.robinlionheart.com/commen60.htm

Great site

Amway is alive and well in Australia, using various alias' and claims of internet expansions.
What amazes me is the simple mathematics that these so called business operators cant seem to grasp Assuming that each Amway agent recruits just 7 active members who in turn recruit 7 more each, etc etc How many layers will be needed to recruit every man women and child on the planet (pop= 6 bil) ? Answer = less than 12 levels (11.57...) The more people recruited at each level the more frightening the numbers become. Its the business equivalent of a chain letter.
Is the motivational angle of Amway worthwhile? Yes! How else can you explain the failure of people to see fucking obvious. Pity they cant use all that energy to produce something worthwhile for humanity other than generic branded groceries.

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http://www.amquix.info/feedback/feedback_april01.html

Hi Scott.

Just thought I'd write in with my experiences. Down in Australia, we have to put up with A2K. Associated people, when pushed, flatly deny that it is in any way linked to Amway, until you put it to them that even the name stands for "Amway 2000".

They are no where near the organized sort of crew that you guy seem to have. When approached at the local McDonalds by a smoking man and asked "oi bro... wanna make some quick cash" I was certain he was referring to drug running, and almost called the police.
I ended up in a meeting with the guy. My technical background (I work at a large ISP) was how I knew not to get involved. You see the web site (www.a2k.com.au) runs on Win32 Apache, which even its creators say doesn't work very well. They advise not using it on any important web sites and, more importantly, stress that it can't handle much load.

I spent the whole night looking over the statistics, and I assure you, if that web site was getting even a quarter of the hits they claimed it was, it would have keeled over and died, it's as simple as that.

The crew is a pain in the ass quick frankly. They still ring me every so often and ask if I'm "happy with my life".

What gets me the most is this concept where they seem to believe anyone who owns a credit card is a fool. It's not enough just to somehow convince themselves that they can actually live without one, but when I take my gold card and make $1500 purchases, then pay it off within a week, people who still work at McDonalds (and there are several in the 16-20 year old group I know of which do this) assure me they only work there to keep themselves from getting bored, as they don't actually have to do anything to rake in the money at Amway.
They then typically have the gall to swear to me that my work has no job security and I'm going to get fired and go broke any day now.

I've since had friends get very caught up in the group and take it personally when I talk about it, so if you want to publish this please keep my address private

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http://htmlgear.tripod.com/gw/guest/control.guest?u=dreamsteal

My ex-husband attempted to build amway for 5 years. He did everything they told him to do. He bought all the "tools" went to meetings every week, travelled to all the seminars and bought every tape they sold. He was out every night and was never home for me or our daughter. He would go straight home from work, get into a suit and "drive the miles" until at least 1.00am every morning. He would then heat his meal up in the microwave before going to bed at 2.00 and then having to rise again at 6.00am! He was totally obsessed and brainwashed. But guess what! He didn't make a cent!!! All this work, and we were getting deeper and deeper in debt. Whenever I pointed this out to him, I was dismissed as "negative" or "a Harry". Amway was like a God to him, and the diamonds were the prophets. He would reduce me to tears if I commented negatively about any of the diamonds. He would say (not in so many words) "well they are diamonds, they made it, you're nothing!". We hit 9% once but usually averaged 3%. Amway ultimately broke up our marriage and we split up after 3 years in amway. He tried building the business for another 2 years but then he finally realised that he was NOT going to get rich with it and he only lost everything that mattered to him. And guess what else happened!! He was in a car with a "prospect" when it crashed and he broke his wrist. He is no longer able to perform his normal job. Did Amway compensate him because he was building a business??? You've got to be joking. They are totally unaccountable for that, just as they are for breaking up hundreds of marriages!!!!He is now pennyless and still paying off his credit card from buying tools etc 3 years ago.Amway is an evil cult! Keep away from it!

Post October 2007 testimonials:

A couple of weeks ago a guy that works in my office joined this internet businessand has been nagging me and other workmates ever since to come to these meetings. Henever said what the business is called but having done the Amway thing many yearsago, l knew what it was straight away. Can't believe that they are still pimping the "financial freedom" 2-5 year plan and all the motivational crap to brainwash the suckers into believing that it can be achieved.

Now this young fella is all gung-ho but he's a good bloke if not naive and somewhat gullible. So I've hunted on the net and printed off some pages to give him that l found on the Amquix info site to try and open his eyes. That's where l found the link to your site. I read your story and it confirmed that the "business" has not changed much from when l was in.

Now that l've found your site l'll refer him to it as well. You haven't got any stories up yet, but l see that it's only a new site. Thanks for putting up the site and I'll send in my own horror story when l have more time.

Ex-Amway Sucker.

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Hi,

My partner (who I don't live with, we have a long distance relationship, nearly 2 years)...joined Amway as an IBO only 4 months ago. His personality has changed, to say the least. I miss my "before Amway" partner. I miss the conversations we used to have. We talked about anything & everything. Now all I hear is Amway this and Amway that or my Upline (Gosh I hate that word) said this or my Upline said that. He said to me once "We are not allowed to question our upline" I asked him, Why not? In any other business where you're investing your money - you're ENTITLED to question anything & everything to do with that business!" He didn't like that.
It's like Amway Upline is God & I musn't speak badly of him.

He doesn't watch TV anymore (I don't think they're allowed to) or read newspapers. IBO's are not allowed to look at anything "negative". It's like they are mentally & emotionally removed from the REAL WORLD. Every night he listens to books & tapes (brainwashings I call them). Rantings from American "Diamonds" who say Don't quit! Keep going! blah blah blah. Makes me feel sick just hearing their voices. I've been to 1 of the functions, tried to be supportive to my partner. It's like a church. They seem to praise & worship the Diamond(s) on stage. It doesn't seem right. His main focus now is .... future financial freedom & wealthy lifestyle.

The dreams are in his head 24/7. He talks in a happy excited dreamlike state (Amway
convince him to constantly dream, not small dreams either, huge & RIDICULOUS dreams
e.g. Ferrari, private jet, butler, mansion???!!!). At the moment they have a promotion which includes a trip to Mauritius. He says "I'm going to Mauritius! like he's already there! I feel embarassed, for him. He buys all their overpriced products & goes on about how wonderful they are because they get a return at the end of the tax year. Whatever, it's a 3% return on books &
tapes & very expensive products, e.g. $23 for a large tube of toothpaste! All I can say is - what a ripoff & everyone knows that too. I don't know how much he is spending - but I know it's a lot & that too is affecting our relationship. No money left for petrol to drive back home! He has some sort of direct debit (autopayments) going in to Amway as deposits, each week.He hasn't received any returns from the business. He told me his reason for doing this is because he's sick of being broke. I can understand that. Like me, he's a struggling single parent with 3 kids. But what gets me is...they are making him MORE broke because he MUST buy all their stuff! Amway preys on the poor or middle income earners.

They manipulate the persons mind by using their dreams as the main goal to achieve in this business. To keep a long story short, we are not together anymore. I want him to go on his ride, without me. I don't want to stay & be responsible for the guilt I will feel if he decides to quit. Four months was long enough for me. I also have a friend who's marriage ended & broken family (children)...because her husband was involved in Amway. After the divorce, she remarried. Her ex-husband has now gone back to the drink, no longer with Amway, alcoholic, and broke. Poor man has lost everything, including his pride.

Thank you Amway - for taking my partner away. I really do hate them...with all my heart.

Ex-IBO Testimonials - Part 2

http://www.amquix.info/feedback/feedback_oct05.htm

Scott

I really enjoyed reading "Merchants of Deception" as it mirrored some of my experiences here in Australia. One thing did intrigue me though. While Eric made it to Emerald he was never cut into the real tool money whereas is seemed obvious others in the organisation were receiving a cut of the real money. Am I making a wrong assumption?

Just a little up date on Australia. Leadership is due to held here shortly. In days gone by it was held at either the Sydney Entertainment Centre (with Dexter Yager), Rod Laver Arena (home of the Australian Tennis Open) or the Brisbane Entertainment Centre. Now, held in much smaller venues in Melbourne, Brisbane & Perth. In Canberra, The BBS' have gone from the National Convention Centre to a room at the National Library. Interesting!
cheers

Paul
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http://www.amquix.info/feedback/feedback_mar06.html

Hi Scott, I trust you are well! Firstly, I big congrats…your site is great!!

I could almost devote my life to helping people escape the AMO trap….I know many people that have lost the ability to think rationally because they are very caught up in an AMO….mostly the IDA group here in Australia where we are from. If I can ever do anything, just let me know.
I found the Merchants of deception book very useful as well.

I was involved with IDA for 2 years, from 2000 to 2001. Towards the end more and more things seemed incongruent. I started to ask some hard questions, and do some research. Naturally, I came across the tools scam… My up line emerald admitted to me that he made 50% of his money from IDA. It wasn’t just that…I felt more and more that some serious misrepresentations were being made….to many lies…I had about 35ppl in my team, was bringing 20 to functions, but I still just walked. I came across your site also fairly early, and this was invaluable.

I had sponsored 10 personally….i was able to talk rationally with most of them…2 of them are still involved today I think!! Hopelessly lost…its sad. Anyway, I thought I would quickly send in my story and a quick hello, and ad my support. Lastly, I was hoping that with your wealth of knowledge, you would be able to clarify a few things that I have been curious about for a long time.

Re the Amway lines of sponsorship, is Jim Dornan down line of Dexter? If he is not, we may be able to uncover another big commonly lauded deception that "Dex is the biggest so therefore we all need to worship him and do what he says "I understand that Bill Britt is down line of Dex, is this right? Is Ron Purveyor down line of Dex also?? And does Dex have any meaningful leaders/diamonds up line? An N21 diamond told me once that he did….who knows...so many lies and misrepresentations abound. Is there some truth to a double crown (40 plus direct legs) in Japan? The lines of sponsorship have always fascinated me.

Actually, this line of sponsorship thing was one of the first things that I came across that started to make me suspicious. I was involved with IDA, but Burt Guklick and Tom Avalsgard were not in my up-line /line of sponsorship. So why were they paraded as such at functions? Also, IDA was purported to have 80% of the Australian volume, and hence they new what they were doing. It occurred to me that perhaps it was the other way around….IDA had simply attracted many different leaders and lines of sponsorship, because it paid out the most on the tools. So IDA today has at least 5 different unrelated lines of sponsorship/leaders and its very incongruent with what they say.

Later I discovered that the only crown in Australia, Mitch Sala, who heavily promotes N21, and all of his down line, who also promote N21, is actually a Yager diamond, down line of Yager. Somewhere along the line he chose to support Jim D. So the point is that there is absolutely no correlation between your real Amway line of sponsorship, and your tools/AMO up line/ line of sponsorship.

To me this is very damning.
Anyway, take care and keep up the good work

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http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/posts/post87.htm

Re: Amway/Omegatrend

My name is **, I live in Perth, Western Australia I am a person who has failed dismally at MLM.
I joined the "International Dreambuilders" (IDA) group of Amway distributors in 1985 and I devotedly stuck with the program for ten years which included the network break-up which took me out of Amway and into Omegatrend. I spent a lot of money on it and made very little money out of it.

I absolutely understand people's bitterness and disappointment from failure in this type of business which builds our hopes so high. Yet, I will never speak against it!
If it were not for these people approaching me and teaching me a better way to see myself and others and to deal with people in general I would not have attained the other successes in my life.

MLM is not immune to people doing the wrong thing and it is just like any other business where it often seems that the rewards are not commensurate with effort. I eventually (it took nine years) made the decision that I had given it my best shot, and it was time to move on. When we get disappointed like this there is a grieving process which we go through. I stress GO THROUGH! We should come out the other side as wiser and better people.

I commend your web site for providing an avenue for people to express their feelings about their experiences and perhaps publish information on some of the bad guys. My experience did no involve any 'bad guys'. I had to take responsibility for my own decisions. I had to forgive "the business" for the unfulfilled expectations and forgive myself for my failure in it. If we hang on to the hurt, the disappointment and bitterness we are not moving on and we only hurt ourselves.

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http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/mail/amreply26.html

Subject: My reply to your Amway page

Sun, 1 Mar 1998

Hi Russell, I have enjoyed your pages for a while and feel there should be an Australian link. So here is my very basic page...hope to hear from other Aussies. (Please don't mention my email or name...you just never know!!!!} http://members.tripod.com/~dreamsteal/index.html Hi (and G'day) I'm a former Amway distributor from earlier this decade. Recently I foundsome fascinating web pages about the motivational organisations that supplytapes to Amway groups and how the high pin levels make money from tapes andfunctions. I looked for information on the Australian motivational organisations but could not find it. So I thought I'd tell my story - andmaybe others can email me.

It all started when a parent at the local primary school wanted to show me a business opportunity. I was skeptical when the whiteboard came out and circles were drawn but did think I could market some products through my work (in a big firm) and especially liked the tax break idea for cleaning product samples etc...which turned out to be not strictly true. Anyway, I signed up and was in. I read through the manual and was worried about the 10 customer requirement, but was told not to worry about it. My sponsor and the upline people I met at my first meeting said it was more important to sponsor. I bought some tapes and books on multi-level marketing and left them with friends who were not interested, and my sponsor showed the plan to a friend who was not interested, having lived in a house with an Amway distributor. I bought loads more cleaning products than I would normally - i needed a clean house for when the directs dropped by. And I went to weekly meetings - more of that in the next section.

the system creeps in... Weekly meetings were in a large room with uncomfortable chairs in an officein an industrial area half an hour's drive away. The Diamonds did a lot of talking - I remember a suggestion to set up a Queen cookware club with six people so everyone got a piece each week. The wonders of water filtration and vacuum cleaning were explained and there was lots of circle drawing. Tapes were recommended - but I did not realise at first that they were not Amway tapes and when I ordered one about Singles in Amway through the catalogue my sponsor said I should be getting one of the other tapes. They were IBS tapesa nd were all basically success stories, with advice about following uplines and the system. This was System 2000 and you were meant to SUE (sell, use and eat) 200PV a month. I remember being excited when I made 3 percent...mostly through my own purchases. I bought sheets and socks through the catalogue though I could have got them cheaper at sales. I started thinking of everyone as a potential prospect, as the system advised. But I found that got in the way of normal social interaction. I was also associating more with Amway people - we had a Christmas BBQ where kids were present (contrasting with the kid-free policies for everything else)

reality sets in.. After a few months I realised that I was not going to sell heaps of product to fellow workers. I recall an Amagram which celebrated a woman who had achieved 9pc on sales alone...it struck me that few would do that for her to be written up. Nor were people joining me, except for a relative who soon decided she got better value in store specials. But my upline seemed excited and happy..I was a winner..and I went to functions. These involved interstate Diamonds crowing about their overseas trips and purchases (not catalogue purchases). I had to arrange babysitting and my expenses were mounting to hundreds of dollars. Then a friend lent me the book Amway - The Cult of Free Enterprise. It was an eye opener and reflected the pattern of what I had been exposed to. My dream was still there but fading. Finally I decided not to renew.

I would be interested to hear others' stories now I know more about how the tape and function profits work. That's basically the page. Hope you can post it...it's called dreamsteal's Australian Amway loserpage!!!

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The following testimonials are from the following source:

http://www.htmlgear.tripod.com/gw/guest/control.guest?u=dreamsteal

Thirteen years ago, I was an Amway distributor (in Australia) for about 6 months. The main reason I left was the pressure to constantly be selling the business plan at every opportunity. I was uptight and nervous everywhere I went. I couldn't relax at parties or when I was shopping. I was always looking for "prospects". You don't look at people as just people but rather as potential prospects. I would rather be poor for the rest of my life than suffer the social leprosy that goes with selling the Amway dream. Your only friends end up being those in "the business". Luckily, I didn't try and sell it to my good friends - I left them alone.

Unfortunately, one of those friends ended up joining a few years ago through someone else. She said it was a "buying groceries on-line" business. It wasn't until she sat me down and started pitching it to me that I realized it was MLM. I said I had been in Amway and that I wasn't interested in doing it again and she confessed "one of the businesses involved was Amway". I remember thinking "wow, they've become even SNEAKIER". I'm so embarrassed about having been involved with them and ashamed of some of the sneaky tactics I used to get people to the meetings. These tactics are encouraged by everyone in Amway under the guise that some pushy salesmen have given Amway a bad reputation so the word "Amway" is a no-no.

By the way, just before I joined I had planned to take my time, sell people the products and then mention the business plan if they liked the products. But the minute I joined I was immediately pressured to call everyone I know and have a meeting at my house the next week! He was going to show up at my house and present the plan. I tried to tell him that I didn't want to do it that way and I got a lecture about how there's only one way to build the business - quickly! He was going to turn up and that was that. None of this was even mentioned before I joined which I think is deceptive. I ended up begging people who I knew to come. I didn't want to this now pushy guy to turn up to a empty room. I told them outright that it was Amway because I didn't want them to feel deceived so not many turned up. However, there were a few people I called that I hadn't spoken to in years. I did the big "I have a business opportunity you might be interested in seeing" pitch (that I recall is published in their kits) - never mentioned Amway so they came over completely unaware of it. I'll feel terrible about that for years to come. It was flat out deception which is openly encouraged by everyone in Amway and printed in their materials.

These poor people didn't sign up. I know in their minds I'll always be remembered as "that Amway freak" and that makes my skin crawl. I wouldn't have joined either had it been pitched to me through one of those creepy meetings. My sister lied to me to get me to accompany her to one of the weekly meetings so I knew what I was going to see. She said it was near a dangerous area and she needed someone to walk with her to the meetings so she could feel safe. She admitted later that she lied and that she felt bad about it (she sponsored me but dropped out soon after I did).

Deep down I knew that if the product/business were good enough, it wouldn't need so much deception to sell. I also feel bad that there is no way to get through to my friend.

Amway "converts" don't listen. I didn't listen when people tried to tell me it was a bad idea. I feel immensely sorry for people that are having relationships ruined by this business not to mention their finances. They seem to get people when they are emotionally vulnerable. I had just come out of a horrible relationship with a crippled self-esteem and my friend was going through the nasty breakup of her parent's marriage when she joined. They make you feel loved and tell you how great your potential is but if you quit they never speak to you again even if you said you were going to try your hand at something that would potentially be successful like your own business.

Keep up the good work - I know you must endure a lot of vitriol from brain-washed distributors who accuse you of being a "dream killer". Even if your site got through to one of them, it would be worth it. They give you the "well, there are bad salesman everywhere" line I see - but you have to question a business that recruits any old person regardless of their background. As long as you have a couple of hundred bucks, they don't care who sells their "product" and they rely on many other unqualified people to guide them (up lines

Well yes, the dream did sound good, and true, for some it works. You'd need a combo of Type A personality, a willingness to burn off all your friends and every relationship you've ever had, plus a fair dose of luck to get anywhere near platinum, let alone diamond. We went hard, to the detriment of our family and friends - call it lack of perseverance, whatever you like, but instead of achieving financial security, we ate, cleaned, and showed the plan to our financial loss.I do love the concept of MLM, however convincing others as to the merits of "the business" is almost impossible. So I'll just enjoy my present lifestyle because "money isn't everything", and I value my family and current friends.All the best to those who want to give it a go - it has to become your life, so count the cost before you sign up. There is a stigma attached which you'll never shake despite the back slapping from your uplines. PS: they still make the best cleaning products :-P

I am a former Amway distributor. I reached the Ruby level and had broken a Ruby Direct and an Emerald direct. That is two seperate legs so was very close to being pearl and Emerald.

When I first started the business we used the amway Books and tapes and was a huge supporter of the company and the company functions. We wre in a fostered downline and had no help at all from upline past our immediate upline direct. We had heard about all the help that was being provided to other groups and sought them out. This was a bad move. We got involved in an AMO and our business went backwards from there. While we were building the business the Amway way we were doing well...when we changed things went downhill.

I eventually got out and when I did threw thousands of dollars worth of useless tapes on the tip...couldn't get refunded...they weren't Amway supplied.I defence of Amway itself. The business is or at least was a great business until it became prostituted by the money hungry, theiving, lying higher pins who make most of their money from books, tapes and functions. By the way this all happened in Oz not overseas

This is great! I have spent a whole day reading stuff about Amway. I was in Amway/A2k, the Australian sister website to Quixtar for a year. This is what happened. Perhaps being a bit naive I believed I could make 3 Grand a month with the coming internet explosion. I bought tapes books read everything, went to every open, went to conference nights, spent thousands. I found that the motivation given would last as long as it took me to drive out of the carpark, then doom set in again. I was technically proficient at showing the plan. Probably too good as they scared of every prospect. I showed probably 50 plans and a bunch of home group plans. When I had gotten to the end of my list i had no IBO's.

My wife stopped being interested after three or so months and I was doing it on my own. No one joined, my wife grew increasingly distant, my upline repeated the same stuff, I began to lose hope. I basically realised that It didn't matter how hard or much I wanted it, If no one below me could do it I was stuffed. June 2001 we started having big fights. My wife put down every aspect of the business and made me stop the shopping order. Then we actually saved some money! I realised that even if I made money I would be going to functions and associating with amway people all the time on my own. Then one day it was either amway or our marriage and the house gone. I look back and feel ashamed of that time- a nightmare.

It can work for some but like others say, can you live with those under you losing money all the time. That day I stopped was a brilliant day. Ironically, the "dream" of staying home, playing guitar and writing albums is actually closer at hand, now I work from home on the net, and play guitar in the times when I would have been attending bloody functions. And seeing the plan 50 times- aaaggghhh.Please email me if you have experienced similar hideous scenes or want to argue with me about how brilliant amway is- can't wait.

Guess the old saying goes with Amway, "if it seems to good to be true, well it probably is".The tapes, the books, the meetings and all that pressure. I didn't make anything but boy did my house sparkle!One interesting thing I noted was the number of Amway marriages that broke up - and the more motivated person of each couple would pair off with another equally motivated person from another marriage - 2 marriages would break to form 1 new union. This new couple (both so motivated) were unstoppable in their pursuit of new recruits. I heard of 4 such break-ups/get togethers in the year I was in. Did anyone else hear of similar stories?

I was so excited when I first saw the circles drawn! (back in '89)I spoke to everyone I knew and they all said no! I did not make any money and spent hundreds on the S&R's/books/tapes and self purchase of the products. I discovered on several occasions that I couild get the same product at the supermarket for LESS THAN THE WHOLESALE DISTRIBUTOR PRICE! I have friends who have prospected us and they say the same things they did over ten years ago!

I still go into a nervous sweat if I want to talk to someone about a great product I have discovered. I did get something good from my Amway experience and that was thru the positive thinking books - that is where my mindsets began to change. There are so many opportunities out there, especially now we are well into the Information Age.

So keep looking, and keep dreaming! PS Please don't use my email for junkmail or any money-making schemes. We have ours already

Ex-IBO Testimonials - Part 1

Below are testimonials from ex-IBO's that are on various sites on the net. Links to original sources are provided.

http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/mail/amreply29.html

Mon, 4 May 1998 Hi,My name is ***** I live in Melbourne Australia, All I can say about yourpage is WOW !!!! you are a real champion. Me and my wife were involved in amway a few years ago and we like you at the start thought that all our financial worries will be over in a short time. I am very glad that those stupid mindbending tapes didn't have the effect on my mind as our upline would have liked them to have, as for the seminars all I can say is that I didn't take too kindly to watching some so called highly respected businessman totally and utterly hypnotise a bunch of brainwashed bunnies, the tapes and seminars were the biggest thorn in my side I couldn't understand why these two were the main ingredients to a successful amway career but luckily I evaluated the whole business with an open mind and I can't thank my sceptic side enough, Anyway I'm not going to carry on about our BAD !!!!!! very BAD !!!!!!!experience with amway in this letter, if you would be interested in our amway venture I would be more than happy to give you a detailed report.

It's very nice and comforting to see educated people such as yourself takingyour time to try and enlighten people around the world about the amway clan.I have my own ceramic tiling business and my wife ***** is back at Unistudying Psychology, wouldn't it be funny if I had to listen to motivational tapes on tiles and glue for my business to function properly hey I'm no where close to being a millioneer but I can go to sleep every night in comfort knowing that I don't have to loose my family and friends because of the business I'm in.

I have better end this cos otherwise I will be typing for a long time,hopefully you can give me the pleasure of doing so in my future e-mails toyou.Looking forward to your reply I have bookmarked your page and will bevisiting it regularly. All the best..........

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www.suburbia.net/~fun/amway/comment3.htm

Hello from down under, I couldn't agree more about untold truths During my time as an Amway distributor(if you could call it that, its more like spend a small fortune on tapes,books and boring meetings) I was expected to attend ALL meetings, spend money on tapes books and boring meetings. I was even expected to leave my job to set up meetings with possible new distributors and show them the plan with my sponsor and upline. The final straw that broke the camels back was being sworn at for being late to a team phone call. These team phone calls almost cost me my employment.With Amway all they see is AMWAY, AMWAY AMWAY. They don't even tell you it's amway when they try to get you to join!I t's happened to me twice. The second time was to see if it was Amway.

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www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/commen10.htm

Sidney,
Your web page is full of interesting information. I was an Amway distributor in Melbourne, Australia for about 1 year. I didn't have much success as a distributor, and it wasn't through lack of enthusiasm. I ended up quitting because 1. I got sick of my 'upline' forcing the tape of the week, book of the month, seminars, functions etc. on me. 2. I wasn't making ANY money! I was spending WAY more money on the 'essentials' than there was money coming in. They pointed out that if I wanted to succeed in 'the business' that I needed to plug into successful minds, at a cost of course. They were very encouraging, however I didn't realize that they were profiting greatly from their little distribution business on the side. They seemed such great friends, but of course, when you become inactive, they don't want to know you at all. Good friends?

As far as the cult question goes, I have never seen anything quite like it before in my life. I was in awe, but you eventually get swept up in the excitement. I did attend a function featuring Dexter Yager, Bert Gulick etc... I couldn't believe the crowd. They (we) were going absolutely wild when these guys were introduced. To be quite honest, my initial thoughts were that it just like the Nazis saluting to Hitler! In hindsight, I'm sure they (the upline) make a tremendous amount of money from these functions and all the other 'dreaming' stuff. I guess I know why these guys were so excited to see our money, I mean us. I guess I learned some good people skills from this experience, but I lost a lot of good friends in the process.

I can definitely relate to a great deal of people who responded to you. Keep up the good work.

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http://www.amway.robinlionheart.com/commen10.htm

HI FROM AUSTRALIA!

INTERESTING READING THIS CLASS ACTION. WE WERE INVOLVED IN THE YAGER SYSTEM IN AUSTRALIA FOR A PERIOD OF 4 1/2 YEARS. WE REACHED DIRECT LEVEL IN 14THS AND QUALIFIED THROUGH UNTIL END OF FISCAL YEAR AUGUST 1995. AFTER 4 YEARS OF MAKING NO MONEY AFTER EXPENSES WE SOLD OFF OUR BUSINESS TO OUR UPLINE.

WE BROKE 3 SEPARATE SILVER LEGS AND ONE DIRECT LEG. HOWEVER WE DID NOT MAKE ANY MONEY AFTER 'NORMAL' EXPENSES OF ATTENDING FUNCTIONS DRAWING PLANS AND TRAVELLING THROUGHOUT AUSTRALIA TO 'BUILD THE BUSINESS'. IT TOOK ME FOUR YEARS TO WORK OUT THE INCOME PRODUCED BY DIAMONDS AND ABOVE FROM THE TAPES, BOOKS AND FUNCTIONS SOLD TO DISTRIBUTORS. WE WERE A PARTY TO THE'BREAK' ON TAPES AND WAS EXPLAINED THAT THIS WAS TO COVER OUR EXPENSES INCURRED IN DISTRIBUTING THE MATERIAL. THE SMALL BREAK NEVER COVERED OUR OWN EXPENSES. I FINALLY DID SOME MATHS AND WORKED OUT WHO WAS MAKING ALL THE MONEY.

INTERESTING OUR TAPE TURNOVER EACH FINANCIAL YEAR WAS ALMOST THE SAME AS OUR AMWAY PRODUCT TURNOVER. I FINALLY WORKED OUT SOMEONE WAS MAKING A FORTUNE OUT OF THE TAPES, FUNCTIONS AND IT WAS NEVER GOING TO BE US.

OBVIOUSLY I HAVE BUSINESS RECORDS TO BACK UP WHAT I SAY

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http://www.suburbia.net/~fun/amway/commen19.htm

MY WIFE AND I LIVE IN QUEENSLAND (AUSTRALIA), WE HAVE ONLY JUST RESIGNED OUR DISTRIBUTOSHIP FROM AMWAY, AFTER NEARLY THREE YEARS. IF ONLY I HAD OPENED MY EYES EARLIER, LISTENED TO MY WONDERFUL WIFE, BUT I WAS CAUGHT UP IN THE SYSTEM. THAT IS THE SYSTEM OF I.D.A......TAPES, BOOKS, SEMINARS, FUNCTIONS ETC...IT WENT ON AND ON. I HAD SUCH A BELIEF FROM OUR SPONSORS, THAT THEY CARED AND LOVED US AND EVERYTHING WOULD BE SO ROSY, JUST BELIEVE AND USE THE SYSTEM. HOW WONDERFUL THIS WAS, $6.00 A WEEK FOR A TAPE - $4.00 A WEEK FOR OPEN MEETINGS - $12.00 A MONTH FOR A SEMINAR - $90 - $120 TWICE A YEAR FOR A MAJOR FUNCTION...(YES YOU HAD TO BE AT THE FUNCTIONS, YOU NEEDED IT, YOUR FAMILY NEEDS IT, IF YOU WISH TO SUCCEED THEN YOU HAVE TO BE THERE......NO MATTER THE COST TO YOU FINANCIALY, OR PERSONALLY).

WHEN I STARTED AMWAY, I HELD A GOOD MANAGEMENT POSITION IN THE HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY, AND CLIMBING FUTHER UP THE LADDER, STUDYING FOR MY DIPLOMA IN HUMAN RECOURSES MANAGEMENT, ATTAINED MY WORKPLACE HEALTH & SAFETY ACCREDITATION, A MEMBER OF THE AUSTRALIAN INSTITUTE OF MANAGEMENT. BUT MY SPONSOR IS A PROFFESIONAL BANKER....I SHOULD LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS. AFTER THE FIRST TWELVE MONTHS (MY OUTGOINGS FAR EXCEEDED THE INCOMMINGS IN AMWAY/I.D.A.). I STEPPED DOWN FROM MY MANAGEMENT POSITION, TO A LOWER POSITION, AFTER ALL I NEEDED MORE TIME TO SHOW THE PLAN, MOST OF ALL I WAS TOLD I NEEDED TO ATTEND MORE FUNCTIONS AND SEMINARS. THE SECOND YEAR YES IT GOT WORSE, MY STRESS LEVEL WENT UP, I DID NOT HAVE TIME FOR MY FAMILY, I DID NOT LISTEN TO MY WIFE. OUR FINANCIAL STANDING WAS NOT LOOKING THE BEST....BUT I BELIEVED YES I BELIEVED....WE ARE GOING DIAMOND!!!! BUY MORE TAPES! AND MORE TAPES! AND MORE TAPES! YES I WAS IN DEEP, I BELIEVED, I WAS ANOTHER SUCKER ON THE LIST, THE NEXT IN LINE.

NO MATTER WHO I TALKED TO, THE ONLY SUBJECT WAS AMWAY AND I.D.A....BUT NO- BODY WOULD KNOW THAT UNTIL I GOT INTO THEIR LIVIN ROOMS AND HOUSES TO SHOW THE PLAN. YES LADIES AND GENTLEMEN A TWO - FIVE YEAR PLAN AND YOU CAN BE FINANCIALLY SECURE. BE YOUR OWN BEST CUSTOMER...THE ONLY TIME I EVER HEARD PRODUCTS OF AMWAY MENTIONED, WAS WHEN YOU COULD NOT AFFORD A TAPE OR GO TO A SEMINAR, THEN GO SELL SOMETHING (OH! REALLY! WE CAN DO THAT?).

MY WIFES BIRTHDAY, I HAD ARRANGED SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL FOR HER. A MAJOR LEADERSHIP FUNCTION WAS ON THE SAME NIGHT....OH YES DID I GET HASSLED, BECAUSE I THOUGHT MORE OF MY WIFE THEN GOING TO THIS LEADERSHIP FUNCTION. THE HARRASEMENT WENT ON FROM PHONE CALL FROM OUR DIRECTS, LECTURES FROM OUR DIAMOND DIRECTS. THE WHOLE PLOT STARTED TO SMELL, SOMETHING WAS NOT RIGHT....YOU CARE FOR SOMEONE YOU CARE ABOUT THEIR CHOICES AND DESISIONS IN LIFE, YOU CARE ABOUT THE LOVE THEY SHOW FOR THEIR FAMILY.

MY WIFE TRIED TO TELL ME SO MANY TIMES, WHAT WAS HAPPANING, MY LIFE WAS AMWAY AND I.D.A., MY FAMILY CAME SECOND. I WAS DRIFTING AWAY, YES I WAS, MY FAMILY WAS ALWAYS THEIR, I HASSLED MY WIFE TO ATTEND THESE SEMINARS AND FUNCTIONS. BUT I GUESS SHE HAD MORE BRAINS, SHE WAS NOT IN THE CULT! NOW YES WE HAVE RESIGNED OUR DISTRIBUTORSHIP, I FINALLY SAW THE LIGHT, I WOKE UP TO WHAT WAS HAPPENING. I QUESTIONED MY UPLINE DIRECTS, THE ANSWERS WERE NOT IMPRESSIVE.

MY FAMILY LIFE IS BACK TO IT'S WONDERFUL LOVING WAY, I LOVE AND THANK MY WIFE FOR BEING WITH ME AND KNOWING THAT I WOULD COME WHEN I WOULD SEE THE TRUTH. MY CAREER IS BACK ON PATH.....NEXT YEAR (1997) I ENTER INTO A HUMAN RECOURSES MANAGEMENT POSITION WITH THE SAME COMPANY, MY STUDIES ARE AT FULL BORE CATCHING UP, YES EVERYTHING IS WONDERFUL IN OUR FAMILY. THE ONLY BLACK HOLE LEFT, IS THE FINANCIAL SITUATION. $9,000.00 TO PAY ON OUR CREDIT CARD....WHAT A FOOL I WAS. WE WILL REACH THE TOP, I WILL SEND POSTCARDS TO OUR EX-DIRECTS. BUT IT WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH AMWAY OR I.D.A.

ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS WHAT EVER COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN - IF YOU ARE INVITED TO A BUSINESS MEETING.....ASK ONE QUESTION - IS IT AMWAY? IF THE PERSON DOES NOT ANSWER YOU STRAIGHT BY - YES IT IS, OR NO IT IS NOT. LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP

PEOPLE IN AMWAY, WILL SAY THIS IS NONSENSE (I SAID IT), I AM TALKING FROM EXPERIENCE. I AM PAYING THE CREDIT CARD, I HAVE A GARAGE WITH MORE TAPES THEN I KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH, I HAVE ATTENDED MORE SEMINARS AND FUNCTIONS THEN HAD HOT BREAKFASTS. YES I WAS ONE OF THEM........BUT NOW I AM SO HAPPY.....ALL I CAN SAY IS, TO MY WONDERFUL SWEET WIFE, THANKYOU FOR BELIEVING IN ME, THANKYOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.... MY SWEET WIFE.....I LOVE YOU BULK!!!!!!!!!

THANKYOU FOR YOUR TIME.........................................

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http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/People/dst/Amway/AUS/commen21.htm

Sidney

I'm amazed by the amount of material about Amway on the net. I thought I'd run out of stuff, then I came across the newsgroups. We are a couple from Australia in the Yager system and have been involved for two years now. We have been very quiet for about a year. We went reasonably gung-ho at the beginning (go- getters) attending all functions, tape of the week and completely plugged into the SYSTEM. "I decided to zip my pants up at the front" and was removed from my own conventional business by my partner six months into Amway.

We have just finalised these proceedings with an out of court settlement and that part of life was completed on the 1 Dec 1996. My involvement in Amway did at least give me a spine but if I had realised the legal proceedings (the Canadian fraud case) the Amway business had been involved with I wouldn't have become a distributor. I have a strong belief in business ethics. That was the main cause of the dispute with my business partner.

Don't get me wrong, I believe most of the people I've had dealings with in our upline are fine people, but I believe a corporations ethics is greatly defined by it's leaders. Our direct (who took 8 years to get there) is a wonderful man, but even at that stage I don't think he was making a fortune after costs.

The internet has taken off like a house on fire in this country and since I've heard stories of numbers declining, I'm wondering if it is partly due to the influence of this and other similar sites. I wish, like many others that I had had access to this information two years ago.

We had always suspected that the system was a great money spinner for someone at the top but this was generally denied. My wife used to pick up one bottle of shampoo and there would always be thirty dollars worth of incidentals nearly every time. So the bills certainly started to mount up to the tune of a few thousand a year on the system. With two small children, the baby sitting costs along with the system expenses, prompted our decision to quit and set up another conventional business with an honest business partner who I've known for many years.

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www.amquix.info/aus/commen41.htm

About a month and a half ago, I noticed in passing that the ATO (Australian Taxation Office) has tightened the laws on Amway distributors as most of them were claiming them as a tax loss.
I believe the new laws mean they can only claim "The Business" as a loss for up to two years, but you'd have to verify this with the ATO.

Having been a distributor, I also had noticed the religious fervour that distributors exhibited. It seems it doesn't matter how often you "Show The Plan" in Australia, the only ones who will sign up are those with an over active imagination, and are ripe to be preyed on (such as I used to be).
Despite being assured that I'd receive help from my upline, I found them to only be available when it came time to collect money from me for meetings.

One benefit from having been a distributor is that I always check the fine print of any document, and will only sign it after 24 hrs of perusing, reading and digesting the information in it.

To all those who detract from your efforts with these pages, just let me say "Wake up and smell the coffee". You Americans are so self righteous when it comes to the right of "freedom of speech" only as long as that speech conveys the same beliefs as your own. Fine, I couldn't make the business work, I just don't know as many suckers as you successful distributors.

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www.suburbia.com.au/~fun/amway/commen54.htm

Greetings Mr Schwartz, My name is * and I am a former distributor in Australia, and I was part of the Yager system. I would just like to briefly share an experience with you. At the time I was 21 and had a group of about fifteen people, and I was touted as a young turk in my particular organisation. One evening after a major function, I confronted my upline Pearl Direct about the tapes and the money involved. He took me aside and said to me that if I had any brains, I would work out that that is where the money is. It reached a point thereafter through disillusionment, concern, a lack of focus...whatever you like to call it, where my momentum slowed and reality set in. Friends of mine were "blowing out" and through personal integrity I wore the cost of the countless tools they had been loaded with over a relatively short period of time. I believe that the entire experience over 2-3 years would have cost me $10,000 in tools, functions, travel, coffees, meetings etc.

I must be honest though, in saying that I did benefit from various experiences, mainly motivational, and in fairness, my current success in the financial planning industry (Diamond income equivalent after two years - $150,000pa) has had something to do with my time in the business.

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http://www.amquix.info/feedback/feedback_may01.html

Scott

I happened upon your site just recently. I was a, what I would call, semi-active Amway distributor in New Zealand and Australia for around four years.

I was part of the "Yager" system of tapes, books & functions, and eventually decided that I'd spent enough money.

I never realized that so much of the Emerald and Diamond income came from the system tools. I could never understand why I wasn't making any money - now I see why! Your site has certainly been an eye-opener.

I would like to congratulate you on the presentation of your site, and the sheer volume of information it contains. It is relatively straightforward for anyone to follow, and highlights some serious doubts in Amway's (Quixtar/Alticor/a2k in Australia & NZ) future success if nothing is done to curb the activities of unscrupulous high-pin distributors.

The responses you received from Messrs. Carrillo & Loupelle bring no great surprises as they obviously have very large incomes at stake should Amway put the clamps on.
Keep up the good work

Regards
Mark

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http://www.amquix.info/feedback/feedback_aug03.html

We are no longer active in the amway system - SEPARATION & FREEDOM HAS BEEN ACHIEVED.

The following took place over a ten year period and I have tried to condense it yet communicate the essence of the whole saga. I hope that this helps someone avoid the pain, personal and financial stress that occurs with Amway and IDA.

FROM AUSTRALIA - We joined back in '93 in the IDA, Yager system and got off to a rapid start - we did all the things suggested Books, tapes, functions and showed the plan to anything that was breathing . . . We achieved success to the level of quicksilver, which is 5 personally sponsored and 10 more in depth under those 5. At this point I would like to say that I was having a successful career as an awarding winning photographer but had seen the long term potential of some residual income instead of being a decrepit old photographer. We had just moved into a fairly prestigious house on 1.5 acres and were doing quite well.

What followed in the years to come was a night mare . . .

My boss got wind of the fact that I was involved in Amway and offered me 2 options - accept a demotion or leave. mmm. Too late now I had the bug bad and believed that I would make more money from Amway anyway so what the hell... I told him to keep his J.O.B. (Amway talk for Just Over Broke) Started my own photography business on the advice of upline Emerald, you need to counsel about these things, so we did, and quickly found out that we actually did not have the operating capital to do so. Anyway this lead to digging into the equity in our house and
the whole time running around showing plans and earning new and higher pins! To make this story shorter, about 2 years later we ended up in a bad financial position because all our focus was on Amway, not the bank, my photographic career, the kids etc etc etc

So we had to sell our dream home and move back to the burbs, into a house that was 1 bedroom short etc, which we did with the attitude that sometimes you have to take a step back to take a step forward ( more cliches from our upline leaders, fountains of knowledge and success that they are .. . ) The whole time continuing to build the business because it was "the answer, grasshopper,,,,,," Anyway, while living in this house we got excited and put a contract on a block of land and again to cut a long story short, this ended in disaster as we were unable to finance it and the land developer ended up suing us for breach of contract and, ] you guessed it, we had to sell this house to buy the land. mmmm. Now we owned a block of land and had to rent a house, the slide downhill could hardly get worse.

The whole time we were showing the plan - "you'll make it just keep going" During this whole period of about 3 years we had achieved some moderate success, up to 15% pin (3250PV), with the normal situation of distributors falling out the bottom of the funnel as quick as we were putting them in the top. Anyway, still trying to make some money in photography, I bought into a franchise business and worked at this for 2 years more while still travelling up up to 2,000klm a month driving interstate to build the Amway business ALL at the same time.

This whole time we are living in a less than desirable rented house but "once you make it all will be OK . . . ." You guessed it, 2 years in that photography franchise we managed to accumulate about $35,000 in debt, the franchisor still got his 50% of the cash flow but by the time we paid the marketing, rent, phone, electricity, schools etc, we were just going backwards. I believe this was because our total focus was on Amway the other STUFF in life just flows over you until you get a wake up call like THE BANK, you owes us $$$$$$$$$$$ and the only asset you have now is this land.

During this turbulent period we actually did manage to go SILVER (7,500 PV or 21% bonus level), kept a cheque that month for about $2,000 and never had that volume again - so much for ongoing income, If I could have in the bank every cent we spent on TAPES, BOOKS, FUNCTIONS AND PRODUCTS, I would have had enough to pay this damn $35,000 and some left to actually take the kids on a holiday.

It was about this time that my little brain said - ENOUGH Amway, deep down I had known it for a while but who wants to be a Quitter, a Looser .. m mm m

So we withdrew from Amway and THE SYSTEM at this point.

You guessed it, we had to sell the land and pay all the equity to the bank, BUT that wasn't all we still owed them and others big time - that's when we were left with the $35,000 and nothing left to sell to pay it. I had to find a normal day job working for wages and over the next 3 years worked in a variety of positions within Sales and the IT industry with my wife also going back to full time work to start on the road to repay all these people the money that was owed.

We had a windfall inheriting half a house during this period, and actually managed to save some money while paying off the debts and took the whole family on a 4 week Holiday to the USA. This is a lifetime memory for us and WOULD NEVER HAD BEEN ALLOWED if we were in THE SYSTEM and counseled upline about it. Guess where that money would have gone . . . . .
You guessed it - into building my upline pockets, sorry I meant, building the business - NOT that I'm bitter and twisted at all.

We are only just now getting the last of these debts cleared and starting to have a life again - the whole ordeal has been about TEN years. A decade of our life off on a misguided path . . .

For the last 12 months I have been selling real estate which was something that I have wanted to do for a long time and the opportunity came up and I grabbed it and it is finally starting to pay dividends, this time I am focussed on the career and not being distracted by Amway. My wife has also secured a job in Real Estate as an Admin Manager and is earning excellent money.
We have chosen to get on with life - normal JOBS, normal holidays, normal houses, normal family, normal friends ----- and it ain't half bad either.

I am just glad that our marriage managed to survive this ordeal! WARNING -
THINK VERY CAREFULLY BEFORE POURING YOUR ENERGY, FOCUS & FUNDS INTO THIS VENTURE YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE JOURNEY AND THE RECOVERY COULD BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR FAMILY, PARTNER AND BANK ACCOUNT.
How do we know this ???? SOME NOTES -

Diamond Kicked Out -

During this period in the Amway business, we put up with an upline Diamond that was dishonest, corrupt, unethical and downright nasty. The Yager system protects these uplines with the - NO DE-EDIFICATION RULE, NO NEGATIVE DOWNLINE and the NO CROSS-LINING RULE

We have a Diamond who is actually making their own tools (tapes and duplicating IDA tapes illegally, books, literature) and fleecing everyone in our group anytime they get near them. Leaving $400/$500 worth of tools with people who couldn't afford them and then harassing them for the money. And here we are in a position where we can't say anything negative downline, we can't de-edify our upline Diamond and we can't discuss this with other HUMAN BEINGS in other legs who may be experiencing the same horrors . . . . ..

During our last 12 months active in the business, we complained to Amway about this misconduct and dozens of people, good people, within our business also complained directly to Amway .. . . AND You guessed it - We were not alone - apparently 5 other legs also were in process of complaining about the misconduct - who would have known, remember NO CROSSLINING.

The short story is that Amway, after a mammoth battle, actually REMOVED them - they are no more, never to grace the shores of Amway again BUT You guessed it - they are now the highest Australian pin in MELALEUCA - I thought what goes around - comes around, not yet anyway.
Diamond Divorce and then one forced out

Also the best upline diamond we had, a successful man prior to the Amway system, ends up divorced with his wife taking over the Diamond business and it appears that he was squeezed out by the big upline Yager Diamond here in Australia and the Amway corporation itself.
That was also a nail in the coffin for us - we admired this man for his vision and achievements and when he was forced OUT of the business by Amway that was it for us. I still have contact with this man and in fact mentor with him. He has been massively successful outside of Amway with his own National company turning over tens of millions each year. What a loss to Amway and all the people that are still in there.

A 10 year Emerald - still working and still not Diamond?????????
An upline Emerald ( has been Emerald for at least 10 years) is still working a normal day job like everyone else. After 10 years with an emerald income how is this possible - maybe the income that is promoted is false . .mmmm... After 10 years at the Emerald level - dripping with credibility, how is it that he has not gone Diamond . . . If some one who has achieved at this high level can't move to Diamond what chance do we plebs have that have no credibility at all .. . m m mm .. . .good question eh!

DON'T . ....................
DON'T Associate with anyone negative - (read that as - only talk to Amway upline and downline) One tape by the great Bert Gulick (Executive Diamond) - Tape called "Habits" -- says that "if you family and relatives are negative - Don't have anything to do with them for at least 30 days - disassociate yourself with them - DON'T listen to the NEWS on the radio or TV - (if it's bad enough you'll find out anyway - it's just negative stories which won't help at all)
Don't keep doing what you've been doing OR you'll get what you've got - I applied this to the Amway business after 10 years of doing it! I guess this little saying backfired on them - I certainly didn't want what I got there so I thought I better stop

Our Story

You are probably wondering who we are and what our motivation is in establishing this website? Well in short, we are just your average aussie working class couple. We are not IBO's and never have been, but we have family members that are current IBO's and thus our experience of Amway is from that perspective. We have set up this site with the hope of gaining more insight, knowledge and understanding of what the Australian Amway experience is. Our story below elaborates further.

(In the interest of our privacy and those of our family members, names in our story have been changed. Any resemblance to an actual IBO couple of the same names is purely coincidental and unintentional).

One day, our family members Tom & Jane presented the opportunity by asking us if we were interested at looking to earn some extra income by joining a "new booming internet based business" that also had Harvey Norman, Rebel Sports and some other large companies involved. All we had to do was purchase our groceries and other household goods through this new business and we would get up to 30% discount on our purchases. No selling was involved, we only had to buy from our own business and recruit others to do the same thing. By doing so, we had the potential to earn $50,000+ per year within 2-5 years by working 10-12 hours per week. We were then invited to a meeting where we could learn more about it.

Sounding a bit too good to be true, we asked some questions in which we didn't get any straight answers to but rather, Tom and Jane went on to talk about dreams and goals, that this was the best opportunity out there to achieve them and that we really should come to the meeting to find out more. Having already been familiar with Amway and the MLM concept, we asked them "Is this Amway? Tom replied "No". After a bit more probing though, it was revealed that the business was called IDA and that "Amway was just the supplier". We expressed our opinions about Amway and MLM's in general and told them our other reasons why we weren't interested in it.

We thought nothing more of it until a few days later when they called us to pitch the opportunity again and tried to persuade us into coming to the meeting. Again, we gave them our reasons and declined. After that phonecall though, we felt a little unnerved by some of the comments that Tom and Jane had made and yet we also found ourselves somewhat intrigued. Although still sceptical about it we wondered if we were indeed passing up a really good opportunity. It had been a long long time since we were last exposed to Amway or any other MLM business, (in fact, we thought that had Amway died off years ago!) so we thought well, we'll at least do a bit of research on IDA and suss out what they were all about and their connection with Amway.

Like most people do when they want to research information, we jumped on the internet and did a Google search. We didn't find anything about "IDA", so we googled "Amway". We checked out a few of the sites and did not like what we saw. The information we found was pretty much all negative and a lot of it concerned Quixtar (which we soon learn't was basically the name the Amway business was now known as in the USA). We found a little bit of info related to IDA and about Amway from the Australian perspective but it seemed quite dated. We didn't know if all this negative stuff was still happening, let alone if it was happening here in Australia. It really didn't matter whether it wasn't anyway. Those few pages we read were enough to turn us right off the whole thing and conclude that we wanted nothing to do with it.

Again we didn't think any more of it and assumed that Tom and Jane would do their own similar research, reach the same conclusion as us and that would be the end of it. It wasn't until a week or so later that we learn't that they had already signed up as IBO's and that we were actually one of the first few people that they had prospected. Surprised at this, we called and asked them if they had indeed really looked into the business thoroughly. At first, they assured us that they had checked it all out and knew what they were doing. We advised them to be careful anyway and pointed out some of the stuff we had read about. They got offended by that and we were quite stunned at how defensive, dismissive and snappy they were being towards us. It was quite out of their character. They didn't want to listen to anything else we had to say. Realising that we weren't getting anywhere with them and before the conversation got really heated, we ended it by just wishing them luck with it.

They were adults after all, who are more than capable of making their own decisions and free to live life how they pleased and we respected that. But still, we were a bit hurt that our concerns were brushed aside like they were and by some of the things they had said and the manner they said it. So we decided to forget about it and just trust that they knew what they were doing. In the interests of avoiding another possible unpleasant confrontation, we made a mental note to not say anything "bad" about the business whenever we got together in the future. We figured too, that if they didn't do well with it then they'd quit soon enough anyway.

After that exchange though, we noticed that we rarely saw or heard from them as often as we used to. Other family members and friends were saying the same thing. On the rare occasion when we did see them, they'd seem really happy and would say how fantastic the business was going. Of course, we were happy (and relieved even more so) to hear that but we all felt a little bit hurt and disappointed that they were missing family, social and sporting events and simply just weren't around much anymore. We couldn't understand it as we thought that the business was mean't to be a 10-12 hour a week thing and yet it seemed that all of their spare time was being spent on it.

Over the following months we would hear on the grapevine about what Tom and Jane were doing and everyone was noticing that they had changed. They weren't the same, yes they were happy and seemed closer as a couple, but their attitude and some of things they were saying and doing began to concern us. The more we heard the more concerned we became as it all began to sound a bit familiar. Familiar to some of the stuff we had read about on the internet a month or so prior. We felt compelled to go back and research the business in more depth.

We wanted to find out more about the business, how it worked exactly and gain a better understanding of what Tom & Jane were doing (since they never went into any great details about the business). We were wanting to find out why they were saying some of the things they did and what had caused their general attitude and persona to change. We wanted to get a good idea of what the typical IBO experience was and see how it related to Tom and Jane. We wanted to verify some statisical information and to see whether what they were doing and required to do in the future could actually bring them the success they had talked about.

So we spent many hours on the net searching for the information we wanted. We learn't about Amway's history, how it works, about the AMO's and their relationship with Amway, we read statistical articles and hundreds of testimonials from IBO's, ex-IBO's and from people like us, the loved ones of IBO's. Although the great majority of stuff we read about was from an overseas perspective, it was still all very eye-opening, in some cases very disturbing and we found too many similiarites to what we had heard, seen or experienced ourselves to dismiss them as irrelevant. Based on what we had researched, we concluded that the typical Amway/AMO experience was a universal thing.....and universally, a bad one.

We were that concerned and shocked, we printed off a dozen or so pages and gave them to Tom and Jane. We honestly thought that once they read them, they'd really take notice and realise that the business probably wasn't all that they believed it to be, much less give them the success that they wanted. Jane read the first page and angrily threw all the pages back at us. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was all garbage, we had no idea of what we talking about and that we should mind our own business. And so ever since then we have.

To this day, we have virtually no contact with Tom and Jane. What was once a close relationship between us has diminished to uncomfortable brief encounters void of warmth and sincerity. We've seen other relationships and friendships strained and tested. It is now an "us" and "them" situation. It seems that time with them is afforded according to where you stand about their business. Those who support/ed them (by being in their downline or buying the odd product through them) have close and constant contact, those who are neutral still have some contact and those who have been/are vocal with their concerns and do not support the business, well, they don't get much time of day at all.

As much as it is our opinion that Tom and Jane are the real victims in this, albeit unknowingly, we believe that we are victims too (hence the name of the site). We and other family members and friends feel ostracized simply because we have opinions that challenges and/or is contrary to Tom and Janes beliefs and way of thinking. We feel hurt, perplexed and yes angry that this business has impacted on us the way it has.

Despite all the research we have done and continue to do, we are trying to keep an open mind and still hold a faint glimmer of hope that we may have got it wrong. You see, we have based our opinions on our own experience and as stated earlier, on the information and experiences of others, the majority of which is not from the Australian perspective. There is still so little information on the net that is from the Australian perspective and we felt that there was a need for a site like this which is dedicated to the Australian Amway/AMO experience. So we took it upon ourselves to establish one.

We hope that by inviting the public to share their stories and opinions, we can obtain a greater understanding and knowledge of the Australian Amway experience. In doing so, we believe that a more accurate picture of what's happened in the past and more importantly, what is happening now will be revealed. We hope that over time, this site will become a valuable resource for anyone interested in researching Amway, whether it be as a current IBO, a potential IBO, an ex-IBO or the family and friends of IBO's.

We therefore invite you to share your Amway experience, whether it is or was a positive one, a negative one or anything in-between, it doesn't matter, all we're simply after is the truth.....your truth.

To share your story, write to us at ozamwayvictims@yahoo.com

About ozamwayvictims.com

The Home page of ozamwayvictims.com

Amway and it’s Amway Motivational Organisation's (AMO’s) has impacted on the lives of millions of people around the world over the last 40+ years and continues to do so today. It is the largest, oldest and arguably the most controversial Multi-level Marketing (MLM) business in the world.

Thousands of people have shared their personal stories, experiences, opinions and thoughts, both positive and negative, about Amway. Thanks to the advent and growth of the internet, these stories and opinions can be found and read by with just a few keystrokes. To the casual observer, it seems that the majority of these stories are very critical and negative in nature. The most common criticisms of Amway that are voiced are about: the AMO's "Tools" systems, the misleading information given by AMO's and Amway's distributors which are known as Independant Business Owners (IBO's)*, the overpriced/uncompetitive products and shipping fees, the poor compensation plan, the large amounts of time and expenses involved and most importantly, the detrimental impact the business has had, or is having on peoples lives and their personal, social and business relationships.

Critics and victims of Amway are abound and they're not afraid to have their say. On the flipside are the supporters of Amway, the IBO's who network, promote their business/AMO systems and share what is positive about the business. They also defend the business against the criticisms made by the critics and victims. Many IBO's claim that they themselves and their business are victims too due to all the negativity and criticism that is about. In any case, the feelings and opinions on both sides are strong and the debate is often fierce, as it has been for many years.

However, the stories, opinions and information which is the most relevant to us, that is, from the Australian perspective, can be difficult to find as they seem to be scattered on various sites and are often amongst and/or outnumbered by other stories and information, which relate specifically to the overseas experience (namely Quixtar), the other AMO's or other MLM's altogether.

So what exactly is the Australian Amway experience then? Is it same as the overseas experience? Do the AMO's here operate similar to the other AMO's elsewhere and how are they different? Do we share the same common criticisms and are they as prevalent? Are the opinions and feelings as strong and the debate between the critics and supporters as fierce? How do we compare to the rest of the world? What was the Amway/AMO experience in the past and more importantly, what is it like now?

This site (and now blog) has been established with the aim to answer these questions by providing the opportunity for the Australian public to tell the story of their own Amway experience, to share their thoughts and opinions and basically just have their say about all things Amway and/or it's AMO's. So whether you have been directly involved with Amway as a past, present or potential IBO, if your a relative, loved one, friend, colleague of an IBO or otherwise, then we invite you to share your story.

So What is Amway?

Amway (representing "American Way") is a multi-level marketing (MLM) or technically called 'network marketing' company founded in 1959 by Jay Van Andel and Rich DeVos and is based in Ada, Michigan USA. It manufactures, markets and sells product lines such as laundry products, personal care products, dietary supplements and cosmetics to name a few. It also sells other products and services offered through it's "partner stores". Amway operates in approx. 80 countries worldwide.

Quixtar: In 1999 the founders of the Amway corporation launched a sister (and seperate) internet based company named Quixtar. The Alticor corporation owns both Amway and Quixtar, plus several other concerns. Quixtar replaced the North American business of Amway in 2000. However, the Corporation recently announced that the Quixtar name will be phased out over the next two years and will be replaced with the original Amway name.

How It Works:

To sell Amway products one must register as a distributor (Independant Business Owner - IBO)* and must be sponsored into the business by an existing IBO, who becomes your "upline". IBOs can recruit other IBO's (downline). This progressive line of people (in order from the top to the bottom) is called a Line of Sponsorship (LOS)/Line Of Affiliation (LOA), like a family tree. These families are also known as Amway Motivational Organizations (AMO's) and are independant companies formed by the high level distributors.

The business plan of today is commonly presented as a "buy from yourself and teach others to do the same" (BFYTODS) model. That is where IBO's buy products at Amway's wholesale (IBO) cost for personal consumption/sales and recruit others to do the same. Rebates/Bonuses are calculated based on the total monthly volume of products ordered by the IBO and the downline they have sponsored into the group. Commissions are also earnt from retail sales made to consumers (non-IBO's). Recently the Corporation has begun to plan/implement changes that places more emphasis on the retail/selling of products to consumers.

Rebates/Bonuses are not calculated by the actual dollar amounts of the products but rather on a point based system using a method of calculation called point value (PV) and business volume (BV). Each product is assigned a point value (PV) based on the type of product, that is, whether it is a "core" Amway product (or products available by exclusive arrangements) or non-core products. The core line products generally attract high PV (100%) whereas the non-core products can have a PV as low as 10%.

The total monthly PV determines the performance bonus bracket achieved. As can be seen from the following table the higher PV level achieved the higher the percentage of rebate/bonus earn't.

100 pv = 3%

400 pv = 6%

1000 pv = 9%

2000 pv = 12%

3250 pv = 15%

5000 pv = 18%

7500 pv = 21%

Business Volume (BV) is the dollar amount assigned to each product. The total monthly business volume is multiplied by the percentage achieved in the peformance bonus bracket (PV level) to calculate the gross rebate/bonus amount the IBO receives. Any rebates/bonus earn't from the IBO's downline is then subtracted from this gross rebate/bonus amount to arrive at the IBO's net rebate/bonus.

An IBO would generally need to spend/retail a minimum of approx. $340-$400 to achieve the lowest performance bracket of 100PV (3%).

What is an Amway Motivational Organisation (AMO)?

As stated earlier AMO's are organisations that are independant from the Amway Coporation but are run by IBO's who have reached the highest pin levels of Amway (eg Diamonds and above). They exist to provide independantly produced and distributed Business Support Materials (BSM) which are commonly referred to as "Tools", for purchase by other IBO's in thier LOS/LOA.

Tools are motivational and training aids or services that can consist of books, magazines and other literature, audio tapes, cd's, videos, software, websites, internet services and other electronic media, rallies, meetings and educational seminars.

There are many AMO's operating worldwide. Some of these include InterNET, Britt World Wide (BWW), Worldwide Dreambuilders (WWDB), International Dreambuilders Association/Interactive Digital Alliance (IDA) and Network 21 (N21), eFinity, ILD & iTeam.

The two major AMO’s operating in Australia are IDA and Network 21.

* Amway distributors are referred to by various names depending on which country they operate in. The most common term is IBO (Independent Business Owner). In other parts of the world they are referred to as ABO's (Amway Business Owners). Recently, the term for Australian Amway distributors (IBO) has changed to AIBO (Amway Independent Business Owner). For simplicity, this site uses the term IBO to refer to all Amway distributors.


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DISCLAIMER: This site is wholly independant. The site content has been based on information freely available on the internet and from personal experiences and opinions of the authors. The authors do not claim to be of any authority, legal or otherwise, regarding the content of the site and should not be considered as such. This site allows the general public to freely submit their own personal testimonies for publication. The site authors will not be held responsible for the content submitted by site visitors or any actions taken by site visitors as a result of the content submitted or other content contained on the site.

Ozamwayvictims.com

We have decided that we will not be renewing the ozamwayvictims.com website and as such the site will be wound up within the next couple of months.

Rather than lose all the info that is contained on the website, over the upcoming weeks we will be gradually transferring each relevant section of the website over to this blog. If anyone wishes to copy and paste any of the website pages to their own site, then feel free to do so, but please be kind enough to note this blog address as the source.

Any new testimonials that we may receive from hereon will be posted as a seperate blog post.

Cheers!

An Ex-IBO Testimonial

We received an email from an Ex-IBO recently who granted us permission to share it. We have posted it here on the blog rather than the website due to the technical problems we've encountered with the site.

Hi Guys

I am fascinated to have researched Amway on the internet and have read The Merchants of Deception. It brought back the many memories of the hours of effort I put into the program many years ago.

In fact I was an IBO in the eighties. It cost me a lot of money and nearly my marriage. My wife was regarded as a negative force and I was a total one eyed supporter of Amway.

I remembered when New Zealand started how a plane load of us went over there to start up our own international legs. It was at all our own individual expense. I did not make a dollar.

Every time a new product came to Australia e.g. the jewelry or the burglar alarms there would be a great deal of excitement with all true believers buying up big. I brought up big even though I was disappointed in the quality of the products such as the jewelry. It looked like cheap costume jewelry to me. But I was a good little ambot and did not say anything negative. Frankly when I look back on it, the whole thing was a joke. I thought that Amway must have dumped some of those so called new lines on the Australian market because they could not sell them in America .

I wanted financial security for myself and my family so I put up with the “love bombing” and the awful meetings. The tape of the week, book of the month program had just been introduced. I was constantly listening to tapes and looking forward to the day I could go fulltime. I must admit it did distract me from my JOB. But I genuinely believed I would make diamond. Talk about delusional. As I recall I think I made it to 15%.

Eventually after about three or four years I slowly gave it away, much to my wife’s relief. But the fact of the matter is that I blamed myself and to a degree her, for my lack of success. It always niggled at me. So in finally researching the internet I have been able to expunge the last vestiges of “could I have made it?” from me.

About ten years later very close friends of ours (he being an airline pilot, she been a registered nurse) joined again and immediately prospected us. It was like the return of a bad dream. Our children played together and we were very close. My wife and I discussed it in detail and decided that we would not take up there offer. In so doing we realized that we would be regarded as negative. All those bloody awful Amway one-liners came back to me. You know if your friends don’t want it then, “they cannot be your real friends can they.”

And that’s what happened. It pretty much ended the friendship. So shallow, so predicable so annoying.

Once again they had the dedication the credibility and the connections. Her brother laws were a CEO for a major engineering company and a medical specialist. None of them could make it work. All of them still defend the program.

We see them occasionally but it was never quite the same. Eventually they moved interstate.

My wife and I celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary. I am extremely happy with my lot.

Best Regards

Bernie

Thank you Bernie for taking the time to share your story. Although your experience happened some years ago, unfortunately experiences like yours are still happening today. We are glad that your research has cleared those obvious lingering doubts/ "what if's?" you had from leaving the "business" and you've moved on to enjoy a happy life.

Care to share which AMO you were involved with?

Amway Testimonials - Email Problem

We have just discovered a technical problem with the email address for submitting testimonials on the ozamwayvictims.com website. It appears that we have not been able to receive emails for the last couple of months at least.

So if anyone has submitted a testimonial in the last couple of months and has been wondering why it has not been put on the website, now you know why! Our apologies.

Until the email issue is resolved, we kindly ask those people who have sent us their story to resubmit them by emailing us at ozamwayvictims@yahoo.com . Of course, we also welcome any new visitors to the site or this blog to submit their stories at this address also.

Amway Testimonials

Our site continues to receive tremendous amounts of traffic daily which is fantastic. Bit disappointing though that we only received a couple of testimonials last month. We were by no means expecting hundreds or even dozens of testimonials but more than two would have been nice! So apologies to all the site visitors who frequently return to check for more testimonials. We thank you for your continued interest and sincerely wish there was more for you to read!

Now there could be numerous reasons as to why the testimonials aren't trickling in and we can only guess, but perhaps because there are no testimonials already there that people may be put off by sharing their story, you know the "l don't want to be the first one" type thinking? So to try and give the site a bit of a kick on, in the next few days, we will be posting testimonials from Australians that have been previously submitted on other sites. Hopefully that this might do the trick?

We will also add the link to this blog to the main menu of the website. This will enable site visitors to easily locate the blog which we use to promote the site and communicate it's happenings, as well as posting about any significant Amway/AMO news or other Amway related topics.

As always, your feedback, comments or suggestions regarding the site or this blog for that matter are always welcome and that goes for our international visitors too!