Another extremely interesting blog post has been made by Orrin Woodward (ex-Quixtar Diamond) on his blog, see here:
Some very enlightening comments have been made, particularly those from current Australian IBO's. And in particluar this comment, which we've reposted below:
"Re: Amway Australia Leadership Challenge
by Anonymous on Fri 20 Jun 2008 09:27 PM EDT Permanent Link
Hi Orrin.
I am the person who wrote the original article "outing" Amway Australia. I am very curious to see what has been said by others in response.
I would like to comment on IBO Fightback's comment.
In my original post I requested that people contact Amway Australia Management. You can ring them on 02 9843 2000. Ask for Amway Legal or the acting CEO, Mr Coldwell. (The previous CEO, Peter Williams resigned in April 2008 - did someone see the writing on the wall - under his guidance Amway Australia is sliding backwards, fast)
Why believe the data on Amway Wiki? How does IBO Fightback verify the comments on Amway Wiki???
I am not interested in the comments by a website - that website is no more valid than me saying 78% of Amway Diamonds in Australia re-qualify every year & make an average income of $375,000.
Just as a side issue, Amway Australia will not pay you a Diamond bonus if you have international legs. The SIP (Sales Incentive Performance) bonuses are paid on Australian legs. How many people are Diamonds in the Australian market - IE: they have 6 qualified - in country legs?
So again I repeat my original post: "Get the transparent facts". (I have one additional question to ad to the list) Before you go on building the Amway Australia business find out the following:
1. How many Diamonds qualified between 1985-2007 have re-qualified more than once. How many Emeralds, How many Saphires, How many Rubies? - this goes to the heart of the issue - is the business model sustainable?
2. What is the turnover rate on average for a Diamond group?
3. What is the average income made by a Qualified Diamond in Australia? How many years did the average Diamond take to achieve this income.
4. What is the Amway Australia sales volume for each year 1985 - 2007? In real $.
Lets stop the internet chat in its tracks. I am not asking anyone to believe or verify my questions with "further fake data" - I want all current, former & intending IBO's with Amway Australia to become aware or the THE TRANSPARENT FACTS.
Email, ring or arrange a meeting with Amway Australia management. Go and get these very simple & worthwhile questions answered. Then post the answers on Amway Wiki - then post them here.
Post the names of all those who are currently qualified & all of the names for each year: 1985-2007 who qualified. Amway want IBO's to be transparent - well now we want them to be just as transparent. Their own website says "money, time & lifestyle" let them prove it.
I challenge someone else to do this investigative work & report back. That way someone cannot claim that I am faking the results , just to prove my version of reality.
I am so confident that the results of this investigation - that I will let an outsider investigate my claims & report back.
The claims will be catastrophic - as I said originally - once you have the THE TRANSPARENT FACTS FROM AMWAY AUSTRALIA - YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE AN IDIOT TO KEEP BUILDING IT.
If any commentator is confident that my questions will be answered with data that reflects Amway Australia as a positive, profitable & successful business experience - then I will issue a retraction.
My article is written out of deep concern for Amway IBO's & those intending to sign up in Amway. I am an insider - I know what has gone on behind the scenes, I know who is not re-qualified even at the Diamond, Emerald, Saphire & platinum levels. I have been on many, many, many Australian Leadership Seminars with Amway Australia.
I have sat around & chatted with key leaders in Amway Australia. I have deep concern that people are filled with a "fake" promise of long term success, by those who still hold out hop that they can make significant money. This is the only reason many people buy Amway product - PV.
I am looking forward to seeing THE TRANSPARENT FACTS. I challenge all commentators to contact Amway Australia report back to this website."
We are pleased that the spotlight has somewhat now been turned on to Australian Amway business and that IBO's are having their say. Our reply to the abovementioned comment pretty much sums it up.
"Thank you Anon for speaking out and revealing your truth as how you see Amway Australia. The Australian public and in particular, the Australian IBO's (current and potential) have been kept in the dark for far too long as to the state of the Amway business here.
We, at our blog have also been calling for true transparency in regards to Yearly Sales Numbers, Numbers of IBO's, Average Earnings, Retention/Attrition rates etc. We agree too, that how can anyone perform their due diligence as to whether the Amway "business opportunity" is a viable (and profitable) venture to commit to without such vital information.
For any current or potential Australian IBO's out there reading this, we also implore you to find out the cold hard facts from Amway Australia. We also invite you to submit your comments, stories, results of your research and any other information to our blog as well.
Thank you Orrin for taking an interest and concern in the goings on of Amway Australia and bringing it to attention via your blog. Silence, secrecy, deception, unaccountability and lack of transparency and information has reigned supreme here, we hope that with further dialogue and input from the public continues, so that the Truth can finally see the light of day".
Posts
7 comments:
if say 5% of the amway population make more than $70K pa part time, then thats better than the national average.
If a diamond doesnt requalify - SO WHAT! that means a platinum didnt.
Once a Diamond always a Diamond!
if a gold medal runner doesnt run as fast the next year - they are still a gold medalist!!!
Ya, making $70k "part-time" is better than the national average, but the keyword here is "if". We can safely say that 5% of the IBO population in Australia DO NOT make more than $70k pa.
Our estimate numbers of Australian IBO's are around 65,000, 5% of which equals 3250 IBO's. To earn $70K in Amway you'd have to be a Sapphire and above. Now Amway Australia has issued no data on exactly how many IBO's are qualified at each pin (why not?), so we are going on info that we have and that is in the 2008 phone book. There are only approx 291 Platinums and above listed (0.41% of IBO's). So your hypothetical 5% scenario is so very unrealistic it's not funny.
Hmm, the old Diamond/gold medallist analogy, and a lame one at that. This is mean't to be a "business" not a sport,why are you comparing apples with oranges?
So if we win 2 million dollars in lotto, we become "millionaires", but we then go and lose it all in 2-3 years and go bankrupt, can we still call ourselves millionaires because we were once? NO!
Yet in the Amway "business", the practice of "Diamonds" being recognised as "Diamonds" on stage and tape, extolling the material benefits (mansions, cars, lifestyle etc) of being a "Diamond" in order to recruit potential future "Diamonds", even though they have not qualified as such for the last 3,5 or 10 years is misleading and deceptive.
So, when did your upline "Diamond" qualify as "Diamond" and how many years have they successfully requalified as such?
Our estimate numbers of Australian IBO's are around 65,000,
WRONG!
To earn $70K in Amway you'd have to be a Sapphire and above.
ACTUALLY MOST PLATINUMS MAKE MORE - SO WRONG AGAIN!
so we are going on info that we have and that is in the 2008 phone book
MANY MANY CHOOSE NOT TO LIST SO WRONG AGAIN!
can we still call ourselves millionaires because we were once? NO! -
NOW THIS IS LAME!!! FUNNY THING IS MOST LOTTO WINNERS DO LOSE IT!
Pins are a level of acheivemnet not a claim of income!
1968 - all of them!
Ask those complaining about Amway what else they succeeded at – usually nothing!
You can’t say things are STILL happening and produce no evidence from this century.
You have NO inside knowledge.
FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO!
Last week a Chinese swimmer was banned for drug use – Damming stuff!! – therefore all Olympic swimmers are bad ! – NO!!!
A NSW politician kicks up a stink in a pub – damming stuff too.
A famous stock broker goes to jail and then dies – damming stuff too!
SO WHAT – ARE YOU JEALOUS ????????
The TC CASE WAS TWO YEARS AGO
SIMPLE..... WHY...?
Please don’t bother to reply – you are now a blocked sender.
Our estimate numbers of Australian IBO's are around 65,000,
Anon - "WRONG!"
The Amway Australia website states that there are 80,000 IBO's in Australia AND New Zealand, are you saying there is more?....prove it!
To earn $70K in Amway you'd have to be a Sapphire and above.
Anon - "ACTUALLY MOST PLATINUMS MAKE MORE - SO WRONG AGAIN!"
can you prove this ridiculous claim too?.
so we are going on info that we have and that is in the 2008 phone book
Anon- "MANY MANY CHOOSE NOT TO LIST SO WRONG AGAIN!"
No doubt there are IBO's that won't list themselves in the phonebook...but with the strict advertising rules Amway has, you'd think they'd take advantage of any advertising allowable no? So on our estimate of 3250 IBO's, your now saying that more than 90% of them chose not to list in the phonebook? Laughable.
Anon - "Pins are a level of acheivemnet not a claim of income!
1968 - all of them!"
rofl, your kidding right? your Diamond qualified in 1968 and has requalified every year since? ...hmm, see the funny thing is, Amway did not begin to operate in Australia until 1971. Do try again, this time, tell us about your nearest upline Diamond.
THOUGHT I WOULD TAKE ONE LAST LOOK.
MY SUSPISIONS WERE RIGHT. WHEN I FOUND THIS LARGELY PLAGERISED SITE I DOULBLED THE NUMBER OF USERS!
(FROM 1 TO 2) OH WELL ITS BACK TO ONE. 79,999 LESS PEOPLE READ YOUR SITER THAN ANZ AMWAY HAS IBO'S.
I REALLY WONT CHECK IN AGAIN BUT IT WAS FUN THANKS!
Our estimate numbers of Australian IBO's are around 65,000,
Anon - "WRONG!"
The Amway Australia website states that there are 80,000 IBO's in Australia AND New Zealand, are you saying there is more?....prove it!
UMMM .... AUST & NZ is one market ---even on a per head of pop. 65,000 WAS wrong
To earn $70K in Amway you'd have to be a Sapphire and above.
Anon - "ACTUALLY MOST PLATINUMS MAKE MORE - SO WRONG AGAIN!"
can you prove this ridiculous claim too?.
WHY IS IT RIDICULOUS - ON WHAT AUTHORUTY DO YOU MAKE THIS CLAIM.
ACTUALLY IN OUR FIRST PLATINUM YEAR WE MADE $80k - DER. I KNOW OTHERS WHO MAKE OVER $100K. ALL THIS PROVES IS - YOU HAVE NO IDEA!
YOU HAVE LITTLE KNOWLDEGE BECAUSE YOU ARE ON THE OUTER. YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE - EVEN IF I DID SHOW YOU A "CHEQUE" !!
so we are going on info that we have and that is in the 2008 phone book
Anon- "MANY MANY CHOOSE NOT TO LIST SO WRONG AGAIN!"
No doubt there are IBO's that won't list themselves in the phonebook...but with the strict advertising rules Amway has, you'd think they'd take advantage of any advertising allowable no? So on our estimate of 3250 IBO's, your now saying that more than 90% of them chose not to list in the phonebook? Laughable.
NO - I DINT SAY THAT - I SAID MANY DON'T - YOUR CLAIMS ARE ABSURD BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW A LATINUM ON A PLATINUM ON A PLATINUM ETC. WORKS!!!!!!
Anon - "Pins are a level of acheivemnet not a claim of income!
1968 - all of them!"
rofl, your kidding right? your Diamond qualified in 1968 and has requalified every year since? ...hmm, see the funny thing is, Amway did not begin to operate in Australia until 1971. Do try again, this time, tell us about your nearest upline Diamond.
OH - SO NOW YOU WANT TO QUALIFY WHICH DIAMOND. 1968 WAS DEXTER YAGER. there has also been BERT GULICK SINCE THE EARLY EIGHTIES. AGAIN YOUR IGONORANCE SHOWS. I WASNT, BUT MAY WELL BE, PERSONALLY SPONSORED BY EITHER OF THESE GUYS FROM THE STATES - SO WHEN IT STARTED IN OZIS IRRELEVANT.
MY IMMEDIATE DIAMOND - ACTUALLY ALSO EVERY YEAR SINCE!
YOUR IGNORANCE KNOWS NO BOUDARIES DOES IT!
Nice to see ya return anon...even though you won't be back again, we'll reply to your comment anyway.
Since inception, we have had more hits on our site/blog than Amway Australia & NZ has IBO's.
We know Aus/NZ is one market and it has 80,000 IBO's (as stated on the Amway Australia website) Considering NZ is about a fifth of the pop as Australia, that's where we derived the estimate of 65,000 Australian IBO's. Note a couple of years ago, the reported figures Australian IBO's was 100,000. Amway Australia is going backwards....and fast.
We made the $70k @ Sapphire claim, based on the Network 21 Business Plan http://www.cubinlab.ee.unimelb.edu.au/~pychan/pdf/businesspdf.pdf
(refer to page 23). You say that most platinums make more than $70k, yet according to the business plan, a platinum makes $40K plus a $17 bonus in the first and second year. Sapphire is $60K + annual bonus. Now we never have claimed to be any authority, we're just going off the information we have at hand. So if you "made $80K in your first year of platinum" then why weren't you recognised as Sapphire?? and if others were making $100K, why are they still Platinums and not Sapphires or Emeralds??....it honestly does not make sense. Please explain?
Even better, show us some Amway Australia literature that verifies your claim that most Platinums make more than $70K.
Showing a cheque means absolutely sweet FA. If we understand correctly, as a Platinum, you have to pay your downline their bonuses out of your cheques. A cheque also does not show what expenses were incurred. So you see to us who are trying to look at this "business" from a business perspective, your cheque means jack, but a Profit & Loss Statement, well now that means everything. So do you show your your prospects your P&L Statement (which shows a complete picture of your "business") or do you show them a cheque (half the picture)?
Well of course we mean't your immediate upline Diamond, your prospects don't deal with Dex personally now do they? And when Amway started in Australia is extremely relevant. It's been in operation for 37yrs here with at least a million people who have joined in that time and how many current Australian Diamonds are there?? Not Many.
Not that we don't believe that your Diamond is currently qualified at Diamond, but there is a bit of talk about that many Australian Diamonds are not. A few IDA Diamonds have jumped onto the MonaVie MLM ship of late too. Seems like the Australian IDA is a dying breed.
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